We live in the natural world.
Look to nature for your answers. Everything is connected...
The leaves on the trees die off in winter but are reborn again in spring.
The flowers dies off in winter but are reborn again in spring.
The grass dies off in the winter but are reborn again in spring.
The Sun goes in tomb of earth so it can be reborn and bring life again in spring
Christianity...the religion of fear and the eternal barbecue.
Hell is a metaphor symbolizing the purging and purifying of the spirit of man.
Your actions make your life a living hell or a heaven. As above, so below....
Heaven is divine mind and hell is carnal mind.
Your pastors and priests don't PROFIT if you have many lifetimes to learn and evolve your mind to higher consciousness.
Something to ponder :
When you eat a lettuce leaf, it becomes a part of you, does it not ? As a result, from then on it begins to experience things with you. So what you have actually done is to transmute one form into your own form. Had this not been the case, the lettuce leaf would have matured, then gone to seed in order to replenish its own kind again, for someone else to eat at a later date .... But by serving you, it has been elevated to a higher service through you.
Has the lettuce evolved to a higher purpose ?
We are to evolve to a higher purpose too
We keep coming back until we get our minds right
Why did the disciples think this man could be born blind from HIS own Sin?
Can a fetus SIN ? No, maybe that's how we are born sinners ... reincarnated? because a fetus can't sin
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
--John 9:2
You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us? --John 9:34
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. --Psalm 51:5
When this same blind man was brought before the Pharisees, they rejected the blind man's testimony because they believed he sinned before he was even born:
This shows that even the Pharisees believed is possible to sin before you are born and this implies pre-existence and reincarnation.
Reincarnation in the bible:
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
"Who do people say the Son of Man is? ---Matt 16:14
His disciples replied:
"Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Seems here the disciples thought Jesus was a prophet of old ....maybe a reincarnated one ?
SIMILARITIES to the new garments/wine skin in Gita and the bible ????
GITA:
As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." 2.22
Just as a man casts off worn-out clothes and puts on new ones, so also the embodied Self casts off worn-out bodies and enters others that are new- 2,23
Matt 9:14-17
16 “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
Resurrection is like putting "new wine" (i.e., the spirit) into
"old wineskins" (i.e., the corpse). It is not a good idea.
REINCARNATE:
— vb 1. to cause to undergo reincarnation; be born again
— adj 2. born again in a new body
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reincarnate?s=t
Born Again ? that sure sounds familiar!
Maybe we are born again into a new body until we get it right?
Maybe Adam was symbolic and reincarnated over and over until reaching the highest position "The Christ" The Anointed One,
"The King of WISDOM" ?
Didn't Jesus show us how it is possible to be perfect in flesh ?
INCARNATE:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incarnate
incarnate
— adj 1. possessing bodily form, esp the human form: a devil incarnate 2. personified or typified: stupidity incarnate 3. (esp of plant parts) flesh-colored or pink
— vb 4. to give a bodily or concrete form to 5. to be representative or typical of [C14: from Late Latin incarnāre to make flesh, from Latin in- ² + carō flesh]
Also, if we read the Gospels then it is clear that the disciples of Jesus certainly entertained the idea of reincarnation. We may infer this from the passage in John 9:2 where the disciples ask Jesus, "Was this man born blind because of his sins or because of his parent's sin?". This question certainly contains within it a reference to reincarnation, unless we suppose that the disciples thought a fetus could sin whilst in its mothers womb.
Divine Justice Implies Reincarnation
According to the Bible, divine justice demands that sinners pay for their own sins. Jesus taught this when he declared: All who take the sword will perish by the sword. (Matt. 26:52)
If anyone slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain.
---Rev. 13:10
Common sense should tell us that everyone who lives by the sword (a life of crime for example) do not always die by the sword. A vast multitude of people throughout history have gotten away with their crimes. In fact, this is another apparent injustice that some people even use to deny the very existence of God. This statement from Jesus is completely absurd and ignorant unless reincarnation is true. For the divine justice that Jesus refers to as being true, people who don't pay for their sins in their life must pay for them in a future life. This fact also applies to the man born blind.
They thought Jesus was reincarnation of John, Jeremiah or another prophet ?
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." Matt. 16:13-14
Luke 9:7
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead.
Luke 9:8
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
WHO IS THE SON OF MAN ?
Yet another discussion between Jesus and the disciples underscores their belief in reincarnation. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:15-16
The flow here seems to be that if a prophet were to appear he must be the incarnation of one of the prophets from the past and so Jesus is asking the disciples who the people think has incarnated as Jesus. The idea of the reincarnation of the prophets is taken for granted and the sole point of the question is to find out who the multitudes believe him to be. These scriptures indicate that, at least to Jesus and the disciples, the concept of reincarnation was common fare. Herod also heard that others were saying one of the prophets of long ago had reincarnated. This again indicates that such a belief in reincarnation was common at that time. Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life. Luke 9:7-8
Being born again is about the witnessing of the Spirit.
The truth, the life, and the way... to understanding the true God lies within his son...
The example given for all... and the keys to the realization of the spirit within...
Similar to the verse i offered from Job...
How do you explain that passage?
Again if no man goes to heaven unless he's already been there, doesn't that explain "pre-existence" and leave open the possibility that reincarnation might exist?
I look at Job 1:21 the same way I look at Genesis 3:19, Psalm 49:17 & 1 Timothy 6:7
Job 1:21
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
How does one return to their mothers womb?
Job 19
Here is where we need to think. Jesus said,
"I and the Father are one." There is a parallel in this as well. The Father of the Son is God can be seen as God Himself. The Father of man is the Son of God as Adam. Adam is the first Father of mankind, followed by Abraham. Here, again, is a moment to think.
When Jesus said, "You must be born again," did this apply to Him as well? Did Adam pay the price for falling by being born again?
We have a clue from Job.
25-- I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 --And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 --I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
The Redeemer that Job speaks of is the future Messiah. We also see the significance of being born again in these verses as Job knew he would return. As I said before, all symbols have a root meaning. Our immersion into the material world is our baptism to be raised to new life. Job knew both facts. He would return and His Redeemer would be seen by Him on Earth. This is where Job next reveals something hidden in a mystery.
Remember the context of what he just said. He was referring to the Redeemer.
28 --“If you say, ‘How we will hound him,since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 --you should fear the sword yourselves for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.
The root of the trouble lies in him. Who is 'HIM'? Obviously, he is referring to the Redeemer, but as an illusion to the error of Adam. Did Job know that Adam would Redeem mankind? Go back to Jesus words about being one with the Father.
John 3:27-29
27 --John answered and said,
A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Similar to the verse i offered from Job...
How do you explain that passage?
Again if no man goes to heaven unless he's already been there, doesn't that explain "pre-existance" and leave open the possibility that reincarnation might exist?
1 Kings 17
17-- Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”
Elijah turns off the water. No more dew. What is dew? Dew is the droplets from a larger body of water that have ascended, the fallen in the morning, shortly before the sun rises. Do you see any symbolism in that?
What happens next, in this very chapter?
Elijah meets a widow woman and her son dies.
17 --Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, “What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?”
19 --“Give me your son,” Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, have you brought tragedy even on this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?” 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!”
22 --The Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive!”
24-- Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth.”
Elijah restores the son to life after taking him UP and then DOWN. Who is Elijah in the New Testament? He is John the Baptist. John baptizes in water as a symbol for preparing the way for the Lord in the wilderness.
How does he prepare the way? He turns the water back on.
Josephus
wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."
From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus. When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist.
Ginzberg Legends
ELIEZER - A Canaanite
As a reward for having executed to his full satisfaction the mission with which he had charged him, Abraham set his bondman free. The curse resting upon Eliezer, as upon all the descendants of Canaan, was transformed into a blessing, because he ministered unto Abraham loyally.
Greatest reward of all, God found him worthy of entering Paradise alive, a distinction that fell to the lot of very few.
Eliezer's transference from cursed to blessed allowed him to be reincarnated as Caleb…
Know that the soul of Caleb originated in that of Eliezer, the servant of Abraham,
for Eliezer left the curse of "cursed be Canaan" (Gen. 9:25)
when Laban said to him "Come, O blessed of G-d."
Had this not been decreed in heaven, it would not have been recorded in the Torah.
At this point, [Eliezer] became blessed.
Caleb means DOG in Hebrew
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3612&t=KJV
Is this possible ?
Is it a coincidence He was a Dog/Canaanite and then in his new body he was called a DOG ?
Eliezer was a Canaanite :
because of his righteousness, he was reincarnated as Caleb of the tribe of Judah he incarnated into a higher form ... as this also goes the other way ..if we keep sinning we incarnate to lower forms .. ?
Maybe having eternal life is just being reborn somewhere else ?
and depending on how we pass our test here on the penal colony earth ... determines where we are placed in the next round ?
Could being reincarnated over and over be the PURGATORY the churches talk about ?
Could being reincarnated over and over be the reward for your deeds Jesus talks about ...
and one is born over and over again until your soul graduates and reaches the highest consciousness
If this is literal .... maybe if we murder then we die by murder ? are all murderers murdered in the same life ?
It would make sense why innocent children are brutally murdered or die very young from horrible diseases etc
Maybe it was previous life sin ...
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matt 26:52
Those who sow in winter reap in summer.The winter is the world, the summer the other Aeon (eternal realm) Gospel of Philip 7
Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia
"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world."
Koran
"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, till they return to Him."
Josephus
"All pure and holy spirits live on in heavenly places, and in course of time they are again sent down to inhabit righteous bodies."
The souls must re-enter the Absolute, from whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop the perfections; the germ of which is planted in them. And if they have not developed these traits in this one life, then they must commence another, a third, and so forth. They must go on like this until they acquire the condition that allows them to associate again with God.
The Zohar
There is no death. Only a change of worlds.
Chief Seattle
The Sufi poet Jalalu 'D-Din Rumi /Islam
"I died as mineral and became a plant; I died as plant and rose to animal; I died as animal and I was Man. Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar with angels blest; but even from angel hood I must pass on.…"
ISLAM:
here are several references in the Quran that seem to refer to reincarnation. Let us review a few of these passages. "And when his body falleth off altogether, as an old fish-shell, his soul doeth well by releasing, and formeth a new one instead...The person of man is only a mask which the soul putteth on for a season; it weareth its proper time and then is cast off, and another is worn in its stead." (1)
"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, til they return to him." (2)
"How can you make denial of Allah, who made you live again when you died, will make you dead again, and then alive again, until you finally return to him?" (3)
"God is the one who created you all, then provided you sustenance, then will cause you to die, then will bring you to life." (4)
"Surely it is God who splits the seed and the stone, bringing the living from the dead; and it is God who brings the dead from living."(5)
"I tell you, of a truth, that the spirits which now have affinity shall be kindred together, although they all meet in new persons and names." (6)
This last verse is one of my favorites seems to allude to the existence of soul groups, of people who have emotional connections returning to life with those they have known before. In addition to passages on reincarnation, the Koran also references karma:
"God does not compel a soul to do what is beyond its capacity: it gets what it has earned, and is responsible for what it deserves." (7)
"Every soul will be brought face to face with the good that it has done and with the evil it has done." (8)
"And We will set up the scales of justice for the day of reckoning. And no soul shall be wronged in anything. And be it the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth: and We are well able to take account." (9)
"For We give life to the dead, and We record what they sent before and what they left after them: and We have taken account of all things." (10)
Plato
tells us that the dead have the choice of drinking from the 'Spring of Memory' and walking the right-hand path towards heaven or drinking from the 'Cup of Forgetting' and walking the left-hand path towards reincarnation.[116]
Plato
saw being incarnated in a human body as comparable to being incarcerated in a sort of prison.[118]
The Gnostic 'Secret Book of John' likewise describes incarnation as being 'cast into fetters'.[119]
Plato explains, 'The soul is suffering the punishment of sin until the penalty is paid.'[120]
Origen
similarly teaches that incarnation is a sort of punishment for having sinned and that in proportion to the sin, souls are put into particular types of bodies. He tells us that souls are 'enveloped in different bodies for punishment' many times over, until they are purified, when they will 'rise again to the state in which they formerly were, completely putting away their evil and their bodies'.[121] (P.129)
Like the Pagan sages, Origen could not believe that a just and compassionate God would condemn any soul to eternity in hell, but thought that all souls would be saved through experiencing repeated human incarnations.[122]
He writes:
'Every soul has existed from the beginning; it has therefore passed through some worlds already, and will pass through others before it reaches the final consummation. It comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life.'[123]
Look to nature for your answers. Everything is connected...
The leaves on the trees die off in winter but are reborn again in spring.
The flowers dies off in winter but are reborn again in spring.
The grass dies off in the winter but are reborn again in spring.
The Sun goes in tomb of earth so it can be reborn and bring life again in spring
Christianity...the religion of fear and the eternal barbecue.
Hell is a metaphor symbolizing the purging and purifying of the spirit of man.
Your actions make your life a living hell or a heaven. As above, so below....
Heaven is divine mind and hell is carnal mind.
Your pastors and priests don't PROFIT if you have many lifetimes to learn and evolve your mind to higher consciousness.
Something to ponder :
When you eat a lettuce leaf, it becomes a part of you, does it not ? As a result, from then on it begins to experience things with you. So what you have actually done is to transmute one form into your own form. Had this not been the case, the lettuce leaf would have matured, then gone to seed in order to replenish its own kind again, for someone else to eat at a later date .... But by serving you, it has been elevated to a higher service through you.
Has the lettuce evolved to a higher purpose ?
We are to evolve to a higher purpose too
We keep coming back until we get our minds right
Why did the disciples think this man could be born blind from HIS own Sin?
Can a fetus SIN ? No, maybe that's how we are born sinners ... reincarnated? because a fetus can't sin
And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
--John 9:2
You were born entirely in sins, and are you teaching us? --John 9:34
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. --Psalm 51:5
When this same blind man was brought before the Pharisees, they rejected the blind man's testimony because they believed he sinned before he was even born:
This shows that even the Pharisees believed is possible to sin before you are born and this implies pre-existence and reincarnation.
Reincarnation in the bible:
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples,
"Who do people say the Son of Man is? ---Matt 16:14
His disciples replied:
"Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Seems here the disciples thought Jesus was a prophet of old ....maybe a reincarnated one ?
SIMILARITIES to the new garments/wine skin in Gita and the bible ????
GITA:
As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." 2.22
Just as a man casts off worn-out clothes and puts on new ones, so also the embodied Self casts off worn-out bodies and enters others that are new- 2,23
Matt 9:14-17
16 “No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
Resurrection is like putting "new wine" (i.e., the spirit) into
"old wineskins" (i.e., the corpse). It is not a good idea.
REINCARNATE:
— vb 1. to cause to undergo reincarnation; be born again
— adj 2. born again in a new body
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reincarnate?s=t
Born Again ? that sure sounds familiar!
Maybe we are born again into a new body until we get it right?
Maybe Adam was symbolic and reincarnated over and over until reaching the highest position "The Christ" The Anointed One,
"The King of WISDOM" ?
Didn't Jesus show us how it is possible to be perfect in flesh ?
INCARNATE:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incarnate
incarnate
— adj 1. possessing bodily form, esp the human form: a devil incarnate 2. personified or typified: stupidity incarnate 3. (esp of plant parts) flesh-colored or pink
— vb 4. to give a bodily or concrete form to 5. to be representative or typical of [C14: from Late Latin incarnāre to make flesh, from Latin in- ² + carō flesh]
Also, if we read the Gospels then it is clear that the disciples of Jesus certainly entertained the idea of reincarnation. We may infer this from the passage in John 9:2 where the disciples ask Jesus, "Was this man born blind because of his sins or because of his parent's sin?". This question certainly contains within it a reference to reincarnation, unless we suppose that the disciples thought a fetus could sin whilst in its mothers womb.
Divine Justice Implies Reincarnation
According to the Bible, divine justice demands that sinners pay for their own sins. Jesus taught this when he declared: All who take the sword will perish by the sword. (Matt. 26:52)
If anyone slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain.
---Rev. 13:10
Common sense should tell us that everyone who lives by the sword (a life of crime for example) do not always die by the sword. A vast multitude of people throughout history have gotten away with their crimes. In fact, this is another apparent injustice that some people even use to deny the very existence of God. This statement from Jesus is completely absurd and ignorant unless reincarnation is true. For the divine justice that Jesus refers to as being true, people who don't pay for their sins in their life must pay for them in a future life. This fact also applies to the man born blind.
They thought Jesus was reincarnation of John, Jeremiah or another prophet ?
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." Matt. 16:13-14
Luke 9:7
Now Herod the tetrarch heard of all that was done by him: and he was perplexed, because that it was said of some, that John was risen from the dead.
Luke 9:8
And of some, that Elias had appeared; and of others, that one of the old prophets was risen again.
WHO IS THE SON OF MAN ?
Yet another discussion between Jesus and the disciples underscores their belief in reincarnation. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Matthew 16:15-16
The flow here seems to be that if a prophet were to appear he must be the incarnation of one of the prophets from the past and so Jesus is asking the disciples who the people think has incarnated as Jesus. The idea of the reincarnation of the prophets is taken for granted and the sole point of the question is to find out who the multitudes believe him to be. These scriptures indicate that, at least to Jesus and the disciples, the concept of reincarnation was common fare. Herod also heard that others were saying one of the prophets of long ago had reincarnated. This again indicates that such a belief in reincarnation was common at that time. Now Herod the tetrarch heard about all that was going on. And he was perplexed, because some were saying that John had been raised from the dead, others that Elijah had appeared, and still others that one of the prophets of long ago had come back to life. Luke 9:7-8
Being born again is about the witnessing of the Spirit.
The truth, the life, and the way... to understanding the true God lies within his son...
The example given for all... and the keys to the realization of the spirit within...
Similar to the verse i offered from Job...
How do you explain that passage?
Again if no man goes to heaven unless he's already been there, doesn't that explain "pre-existence" and leave open the possibility that reincarnation might exist?
I look at Job 1:21 the same way I look at Genesis 3:19, Psalm 49:17 & 1 Timothy 6:7
Job 1:21
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
How does one return to their mothers womb?
Job 19
Here is where we need to think. Jesus said,
"I and the Father are one." There is a parallel in this as well. The Father of the Son is God can be seen as God Himself. The Father of man is the Son of God as Adam. Adam is the first Father of mankind, followed by Abraham. Here, again, is a moment to think.
When Jesus said, "You must be born again," did this apply to Him as well? Did Adam pay the price for falling by being born again?
We have a clue from Job.
25-- I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 --And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
27 --I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!
The Redeemer that Job speaks of is the future Messiah. We also see the significance of being born again in these verses as Job knew he would return. As I said before, all symbols have a root meaning. Our immersion into the material world is our baptism to be raised to new life. Job knew both facts. He would return and His Redeemer would be seen by Him on Earth. This is where Job next reveals something hidden in a mystery.
Remember the context of what he just said. He was referring to the Redeemer.
28 --“If you say, ‘How we will hound him,since the root of the trouble lies in him,’
29 --you should fear the sword yourselves for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.
The root of the trouble lies in him. Who is 'HIM'? Obviously, he is referring to the Redeemer, but as an illusion to the error of Adam. Did Job know that Adam would Redeem mankind? Go back to Jesus words about being one with the Father.
John 3:27-29
27 --John answered and said,
A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Similar to the verse i offered from Job...
How do you explain that passage?
Again if no man goes to heaven unless he's already been there, doesn't that explain "pre-existance" and leave open the possibility that reincarnation might exist?
1 Kings 17
17-- Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe in Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the Lord, the God of Israel lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”
Elijah turns off the water. No more dew. What is dew? Dew is the droplets from a larger body of water that have ascended, the fallen in the morning, shortly before the sun rises. Do you see any symbolism in that?
What happens next, in this very chapter?
Elijah meets a widow woman and her son dies.
17 --Some time later the son of the woman who owned the house became ill. He grew worse and worse, and finally stopped breathing. 18 She said to Elijah, “What do you have against me, man of God? Did you come to remind me of my sin and kill my son?”
19 --“Give me your son,” Elijah replied. He took him from her arms, carried him to the upper room where he was staying, and laid him on his bed. 20 Then he cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, have you brought tragedy even on this widow I am staying with, by causing her son to die?” 21 Then he stretched himself out on the boy three times and cried out to the Lord, “Lord my God, let this boy’s life return to him!”
22 --The Lord heard Elijah’s cry, and the boy’s life returned to him, and he lived. 23 Elijah picked up the child and carried him down from the room into the house. He gave him to his mother and said, “Look, your son is alive!”
24-- Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord from your mouth is the truth.”
Elijah restores the son to life after taking him UP and then DOWN. Who is Elijah in the New Testament? He is John the Baptist. John baptizes in water as a symbol for preparing the way for the Lord in the wilderness.
How does he prepare the way? He turns the water back on.
Josephus
wrote about the Pharisees' belief that the souls of evil men are punished after death. But the souls of good men are "removed into other bodies" and they will have "power to revive and live again."
From time to time throughout Jewish history, there was a persistent belief about dead prophets returning to life through reincarnation. But the Sadducees, a purist sect of Judaism, rejected the Persian concepts of resurrection and all Hellenistic influences involving reincarnation that was happening in Jesus' day. The Sadducees accepted only the orthodox Hebrew belief in Sheol. So there were a variety of influences going on in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus. When Jesus began his ministry, many people wondered if he was the reincarnation of one of the prophets. Some people wondered the same thing concerning John the Baptist.
Ginzberg Legends
ELIEZER - A Canaanite
As a reward for having executed to his full satisfaction the mission with which he had charged him, Abraham set his bondman free. The curse resting upon Eliezer, as upon all the descendants of Canaan, was transformed into a blessing, because he ministered unto Abraham loyally.
Greatest reward of all, God found him worthy of entering Paradise alive, a distinction that fell to the lot of very few.
Eliezer's transference from cursed to blessed allowed him to be reincarnated as Caleb…
Know that the soul of Caleb originated in that of Eliezer, the servant of Abraham,
for Eliezer left the curse of "cursed be Canaan" (Gen. 9:25)
when Laban said to him "Come, O blessed of G-d."
Had this not been decreed in heaven, it would not have been recorded in the Torah.
At this point, [Eliezer] became blessed.
Caleb means DOG in Hebrew
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3612&t=KJV
Is this possible ?
Is it a coincidence He was a Dog/Canaanite and then in his new body he was called a DOG ?
Eliezer was a Canaanite :
because of his righteousness, he was reincarnated as Caleb of the tribe of Judah he incarnated into a higher form ... as this also goes the other way ..if we keep sinning we incarnate to lower forms .. ?
Maybe having eternal life is just being reborn somewhere else ?
and depending on how we pass our test here on the penal colony earth ... determines where we are placed in the next round ?
Could being reincarnated over and over be the PURGATORY the churches talk about ?
Could being reincarnated over and over be the reward for your deeds Jesus talks about ...
and one is born over and over again until your soul graduates and reaches the highest consciousness
If this is literal .... maybe if we murder then we die by murder ? are all murderers murdered in the same life ?
It would make sense why innocent children are brutally murdered or die very young from horrible diseases etc
Maybe it was previous life sin ...
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matt 26:52
Those who sow in winter reap in summer.The winter is the world, the summer the other Aeon (eternal realm) Gospel of Philip 7
Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels: Pistis Sophia
"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world."
Koran
"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, till they return to Him."
Josephus
"All pure and holy spirits live on in heavenly places, and in course of time they are again sent down to inhabit righteous bodies."
The souls must re-enter the Absolute, from whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop the perfections; the germ of which is planted in them. And if they have not developed these traits in this one life, then they must commence another, a third, and so forth. They must go on like this until they acquire the condition that allows them to associate again with God.
The Zohar
There is no death. Only a change of worlds.
Chief Seattle
The Sufi poet Jalalu 'D-Din Rumi /Islam
"I died as mineral and became a plant; I died as plant and rose to animal; I died as animal and I was Man. Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar with angels blest; but even from angel hood I must pass on.…"
ISLAM:
here are several references in the Quran that seem to refer to reincarnation. Let us review a few of these passages. "And when his body falleth off altogether, as an old fish-shell, his soul doeth well by releasing, and formeth a new one instead...The person of man is only a mask which the soul putteth on for a season; it weareth its proper time and then is cast off, and another is worn in its stead." (1)
"God generates beings, and sends them back over and over again, til they return to him." (2)
"How can you make denial of Allah, who made you live again when you died, will make you dead again, and then alive again, until you finally return to him?" (3)
"God is the one who created you all, then provided you sustenance, then will cause you to die, then will bring you to life." (4)
"Surely it is God who splits the seed and the stone, bringing the living from the dead; and it is God who brings the dead from living."(5)
"I tell you, of a truth, that the spirits which now have affinity shall be kindred together, although they all meet in new persons and names." (6)
This last verse is one of my favorites seems to allude to the existence of soul groups, of people who have emotional connections returning to life with those they have known before. In addition to passages on reincarnation, the Koran also references karma:
"God does not compel a soul to do what is beyond its capacity: it gets what it has earned, and is responsible for what it deserves." (7)
"Every soul will be brought face to face with the good that it has done and with the evil it has done." (8)
"And We will set up the scales of justice for the day of reckoning. And no soul shall be wronged in anything. And be it the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth: and We are well able to take account." (9)
"For We give life to the dead, and We record what they sent before and what they left after them: and We have taken account of all things." (10)
Plato
tells us that the dead have the choice of drinking from the 'Spring of Memory' and walking the right-hand path towards heaven or drinking from the 'Cup of Forgetting' and walking the left-hand path towards reincarnation.[116]
Plato
saw being incarnated in a human body as comparable to being incarcerated in a sort of prison.[118]
The Gnostic 'Secret Book of John' likewise describes incarnation as being 'cast into fetters'.[119]
Plato explains, 'The soul is suffering the punishment of sin until the penalty is paid.'[120]
Origen
similarly teaches that incarnation is a sort of punishment for having sinned and that in proportion to the sin, souls are put into particular types of bodies. He tells us that souls are 'enveloped in different bodies for punishment' many times over, until they are purified, when they will 'rise again to the state in which they formerly were, completely putting away their evil and their bodies'.[121] (P.129)
Like the Pagan sages, Origen could not believe that a just and compassionate God would condemn any soul to eternity in hell, but thought that all souls would be saved through experiencing repeated human incarnations.[122]
He writes:
'Every soul has existed from the beginning; it has therefore passed through some worlds already, and will pass through others before it reaches the final consummation. It comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life.'[123]